The card sheets show several changes I have made. I noted some of the character ones yesterday. I made an additional change to Flint Dixon today: I clarified that Barrels can still be used to avoid his shots.
As for playing cards (changes in bold):
- Standoff (completely redone) -- Join a side when a Duel is played. Either you or your ally can discard a BANG! to return fire. Each member of the losing side takes a hit when the Duel ends.
- The Flop (reworded) -- Reveal 3 cards (the flop). Players choose 1 or 2 cards from their hand to complete the flop, and place them face down. Afterwards, flip the cards over. The best poker hand wins the flop. The other cards are returned to each player’s hand.
- James Dougall (redone) -- Range 2. 2 BANG! may be fired from this gun at once if directed at the same target.
- On the House (added) -- All players gain 1 life point. Equivalent of a Saloon, but it is a green card.
- Ambush (2 in the deck now instead of 1).
- Distracted (Removed from the deck).
- Rattlesnake (Removed from the deck).
- Cowboy Boots (Removed from the deck).
I still need to proof the text, the card titles, and the alignment on the images. I also need to work on getting as good a copy of the BANG! backs as possible. Then it will be off to sending the files to the POD, and mailing cards for color correction and sizing adjustments.
You work fast.
ReplyDeleteI must say, that's a interesting change to the Dougall. I wonder; what prompted it? It's original idea seemed simple enough, like a Volcanic except it copied Slab instead of Willy.
You do work fast.
ReplyDeleteI am excited for the POD. Looking forward to it.
Thanks for the compliments. I guess I pretty much switched out the Dougall for the other gun that I originally thought of (the Robert Wheeler). The primary motivation was to extend the range initially. I figured with adding 56 cards to the deck, it wouldn't help if the guns added couldn't reach players in larger games. So I wanted to up the range to 2. I was a little afraid the Dougall would be too strong with a Range 2 and the Slab ability attached to it. So I went for a nerfed Volcanic that was more expressly like a double-barreled shotgun. Since the 2 BANG! have to be played at once, and at the same target, you have to take some risks. You cannot divide the shots up, or see how they respond after the first shot, do something else, and return to firing. Do you think this was a bad decision? Should I go back to the original?
ReplyDeleteI also like the original ability (copy slab) a lot more. Essentially this new gun you have will be a weaker volcanic, and i think having the James Dougall be more powerful will affect game play (players more likely to see it as a threat, cat balou it, panic it). Personally I don't like cards that have duplicate effects. Which is why i think that Pay Day, On the House, bulldog, and the original dougall, tamahawk etc are such great addition to the game. ( I will have to buy the POD expansion just to have those cards , plus the orange ones)
ReplyDeleteKilan
Another thing I just realized is that you are adding 7 bang cards, one tamahawk, a cannon, and artillery. That is 4 new kinds and 10 offensive cards. (did not count duel and indians, they are of a different kind). There is one new barrel, two missed, and a beer. My fear is that the game will be thrown out of balance.
ReplyDeleteIn addition to gatling, howitzer, derringer, punch, knife, pepperbox, springfield, and the regular bang. I am afraid that with 11 different kind of attack cards (5 green ones), very often people will get picked off. (someone picking up 2 or 3 of those in a wells fargo).
My favorite part about bang is the back and forth (along with working as a team) to come back. But with a dramatic increase in attack varieties and cards, most people will fall easily because of the ability to stock up 2 or 3 different kinds of attack (along with 1 or 2 green cards).
My suggestions would be to put in some more varieties of defensive cards? But nothing really comes to mind. I know its a fine line. But I am afraid RR cannot be added to the bullet deck without the orange cards (i dont know if that was ever the intention)
just my 2 cents
Kilan
Hey Kilan, thanks for the thoughtful remarks. Perhaps I will readjust the Dougall back to the old way, although it is different from the Volcanic in having a range of 2, which is pretty crucial when stuck next to an ally. But I could see why you would still prefer the Slab-like weapon.
ReplyDeleteI was a little confused about adding RR without the orange cards. RR should only be played with all of the cards, or it will be off balance. This is especially true when coming to suit drawing for Dynamite, Jail, and character abilities. There are several defensive cards added to RR in the orange cards and some in the brown cards. The ratio of attack cards to defensive cards in BANG! I believe is something like 3 to 1 (at least 2 to 1). People are supposed to get killed in BANG!, as this is only made likely when there are many more attack cards. I added in the original game cards to try to achieve balance as best I could, but you should also look at the alternative functions at the bottom right of many orange cards for the balancing too. However, I will look over the cards again and see if I need to nix one/two to add in some more defensive cards. You may be absolutely right that more need to be added. Thanks for spending the time to help make RR better for everyone!
In regards to the Dougall, I did find the change interesting and understood why you would want it. But like Kilan said, having a weapon that emulated Slab like the Volcanic emulates Willy is very influential. They are some of the most feared characters to face off against, so being able to grab hold of their ability as anyone is a scary thing (think of Suzy with a Volcanic is more frightening than Willy himself). I'd say trying to involve both mutations of the gun would be ideal, but I'm not sure if the card ratios will allow for that, and also considering Jose's ability (I remember you said something about scrapping accessories as traditional blue cards because they gave him such a huge bonus). If not, I'd actually like to place my vote for the new Dougall, just because the range bonus on it will be very handy.
ReplyDeleteHitman, thanks for your thoughts. I might be able to give the old Dougall the 2 range. It will need to be further nerfed or it will be preferred to the Volcanic. I think the best nerf would be for a player not to have to play 2 missed to avoid BANG! fired from it, but a player to have a to play a missed and discard another card to avoid the BANG! This way 2 cards still be must be used, but since one is more general, the shots can be avoided. This might work well with the benefit of the 2 range. Perhaps this is still too strong with the 2 range, so the new Dougall is a better idea.
ReplyDeleteAs for having both, I will take a look again at the card ratios and see what works best. I will also look to see if defensive cards are more needed than another gun.
There are a lot of defensive cards in the orange deck. I totally see that people can play defensively with the orange cards. Out of curiosity, why did u scrap the cowboy boots? I liked the card that copies Molly Stark's ability a lot. Were you thinking that it would be OP? I would think that unless a hideout/pony express is out, people would Cat Balou it pretty quickly.
ReplyDeleteAlso, have you play tested RR with the out of turn cards? We tried death mesa (excellent idea). But the out of turn character involvement makes the game run WAY TOO LONG (3 hours). Usually in situations with 1 outlaw, 1 sheriff and 1 renegade, it would take us 20 minutes to finish the game. I would image with the orange card it might take even longer.
All in all i love your work, just wanted to give some feedback! Keep it up!
Kilan
fantastic work!
ReplyDeleteHey Kilan, thanks for the remarks again. Cowboy Boots were taken out because they are going to be an accessory card. Since accessory cards were removed from Robbers' Roost, so were the Cowboy Boots. I expect them to be back in another expansion some day, once I figure out how I want to do that one (see Forum, BANG! Modding and Death Mesa/Robbers' Roost posts).
ReplyDeleteAs for RR, the out-of-turn cards have worked fine. Once people are familiar with them, they move quickly. And since they are played out of turn, they don't slow things down, as players have little to nothing to do out-of-turn anyway. If they miss the events that they could have played the cards at, too bad for them; the game moves on. Our games with Death Mesa were somewhat longer, not substantially (+5-10 minutes). Again, it depends how familiar BANG! players are with BANG!.
I have been thinking about how to speed up BANG! some since these expansions will clearly add some time to the game. See my forum post on adjusting turn orders. I think this should speed up the game too.
I also might adjust the suits on the non-Orange cards so that they can be modular as you suggest. Players could then play with or without the orange cards with less problems.
ReplyDelete